What happens when you put good people in an evil place?

I watched an interview last night with a Dr Philip Zimbardo, who in 1971 conducted what has come to be known as the Stanford Prison Experiment. I had never heard of this before, but it was an experiment to discover what happens when you put good people in an evil place? Does the goodness of the people triumph or does the evil of the place dominate? You can read about the actual experiment on the web site at http://www.prisonexp.org

It was quite fascinating (& disturbing) to learn, that in this experiment, the evil of the place most certainly dominated! In fact, the evil dominated to such an extent, that the experiment that was supposed to last 2 weeks, was in fact stopped after only 5 days.

The results of this experiment have been compared in more recent times to the scenes from the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, where the US prison guards took photographs of the humiliation inflicted upon the inmates. When you look at the photographs from the experiment & from Abu Ghraib, you can see why!

Dr Zimbardo actually appeared for the defence of one of the prison guards from Abu Ghraib, citing the results of his experiment in the soldiers defence.

So does the evilness of a place ALWAYS dominate the goodness of the people? While I have had the good fortune never to have been in the situation where I had to personally put it to the test, I think not.

Take for example Dr Viktor Frankl’s experience in the Nazi concentration camps, as described in his book “Mans Search for Meaning”. Different scenario, I agree, but he used the evil of the place (and the people running it) as the catalyst to overcome the evil for himself.

Yes, you can find many, many examples of where the evilness of a place dominates. I would suspect that many war atrocities for example, happen because the evilness of a place (or situation) dominates the goodness of the people, not because the soldiers responsible are inherently bad people. But surely there are equally as many stories where the goodness of the people is dominant?

So what situations do you know of, where the goodness of the people triumphed over the evil of the place?

By the way, if you want to listen to the interview, you can download in at here:http://www.abc.net.au/tv/enoughrope/transcripts/s2421530.htm

sounds fascinating and i’ll have to listen to the interview.

the problem with the majority of people is that there values and boundaries are not very well defined or consciously chosen. we are force fed so much bullshit through television and social conditioning from a very young age that it is hard for us NOT to be manipulated by mob rule or mass movements and by people in positions of power.

There is an absolutely incredible documentary called The Corporation studies the sociopathic (a term i think is synonymous with “evil”) nature of corporations. In it they profile how the men who run the corporations may be good people but the decisions they make have evil consequences. Must see 5 star documentary guys.

my Dad recently worked in Australias Port Baxter Detention Centre where our previous Howard government locked up refugees for several years in appauling conditions while their appliactions for asylum in Australia were being processed. (I think, or hope, our new government is trying to rectify this disgrace) My dad said the job was so horrible that he had to quit after two weeks. Hopefully if anyone here finds themselves in a similar position where they are forced to compromise their values that they turn their back and walk away.

I wonder if the numbers of people were evenly distributed between good and evil?

I think this would have an effect freygan, however their roles in the scenario would also have to be considered. A movie was based on the Prison Experiment (cannot recall the name right now but will google soon) and the results were startling. The most evil came from the gaurds as they abused their power and this then influenced the prisoners responses to them and to each other. I think authority has a lot to do with good and evil as it is directly linked to how evil or good can be inflicted on someone. along the lines of a victim and abuser.
in a situation where peers are more equal it would only go one way or the other as a result of extreme peer pressure (creating an authority) or turn into a mob. … this is rather morbid :S

“be careful who you are surrounded by, for you will become like them.”
this is mostly true, it just a matter of time before opinions are swayed and attitudes altered. fortunately most of us get out before its too late.

That’s very true donmc, but in the case of the Stamford Prison Experiment, all the participants were essentially from “the same stable” in as much as they were all college students. It was the situation (prison environment) that had the effect on them & in a very short time, changed them. Regardless of whether they were playing the part the “good guys” (guards) or “bad guys” (prisoners), they were changed by their environment. Even the good guys went bad!

“be careful who you are surrounded by, for you will become like them.”
very true, if your close group of friends are negative people and not going anywhere in life then its best to cut them out of your life if you want to change yourself.

I too watched the interview re the Stamford Experiment and it seemed to me that this was about people being allowed to follow a certain path without any guidance, which at that age people still need. No-one to tell them, no not that way, this is wrong. It, in some ways reminded me of the film “Lord of the Flies”, where a group of boys were stranded on an island and how in a short time they formed gangs and were killing each other. There was no guidance from anyone and they just did what they thought they needed to do to survive. It’s a bit scary as these kids were only about 10-12 years old.