★Jung

Individuation is to divest the self of any false wrappings ~ Jung

 

Any thoughts?

I’m no expert…My first intro to Jung was in school…some time ago. I’m so glad you started another interesting thread for discussion. …wonderful question with or without total-focus on Jung theories.

..I would imagine Jung meant not to ‘simply’ discern by things at face value or the written words, & judgments of others…because experience is indeed more involved than surface.

Basics state:Jung personality theory encompassed 3 levels of the mind…conscious, repressed, and collective. Unconscious most powerful to him. He has some interesting work… about mans ancesterol past and consciousness.The self is always… attempting to achieve harmony and his work exemplifies this quest through some _interesting theories.

I’m gonna follow this thread with much enthusiasm. I have an audiobook by Jung called Memories, Dreams and Reflections, but I haven’t listened to it. Maybe this will spark me to dive in. I too think he may have been getting at the idea that the intellect simply can’t understand everything, it can’t even come close. Experience transcends the intellect. The idea of collective consciousness also fascinates me. Mara, thanks for this thread. You are a breath of fresh air! What say you, Selfcare?

Well, I’m over my head here. Don’t know enough to comment, but I hope you will continue to share what you are learning. I hope it’s not as hard to figure out at “Being and Nothingness”. I labored over 86 pages of that before I gave up!!!

individuation: I remember its usage…but need a prompt./I am not sure if you’d be interested …and/or if it would be helpful..but there is a great site called allpsych.com
. It shows a timeline of various theories. The link above is specifically Jung

I haven’t wanted to refresh my learning in this area because of the way psychology has gotten butchered in the world today. …I will tell you this field of study more than interested me at 1x.

.Here is another link…that appeared relevant for ground up

Individuation is a process of personality development first described by C. G. Jung. In his words, individuation is a “process by which a person becomes a psychological ‘in-dividual,’ that is, a separate, indivisible unity or whole.” (CW 9, I, 490) In so far as our individuality embraces our innermost, last, and incomparable uniqueness, [individuation] also implies becoming one’s own self. We could therefore translate individuation as ‘coming to selfhood’ or ‘self-realization.’ (CW 7, 266)

Individuation involves learning how to transform unconsciousness into consciousness in order that we may become whole.

Your last post made me also think of the emasculation of men in the U.S. and perhaps other cultures. I think men in the U.S. in particular have lost much of what it is to be a male human. Not all men, of course, but I think we can see the effects of it in a broad sense. We have pc’d and attacked men for so long for being men that they no longer seem to know what it means. Also, the break down of the family unit has had a big impact, I believe, on our loosing of ‘selves’ – men and women. Historically most cultures have had rituals that conferred ‘manhood’ on a boy, and those rituals have been quite difficult, and although they may seem brutal and cruel, they serve a purpose – to earn respect among peers and to demonstrate not only to others, but to the adolescent himself that he is a powerful being and prevail in difficult situations. He is a helpless child no more. We simply don’t have that anymore, here, at least. Many of us are sold the idea that the government is going to take care of us. It’s an insidious lie, but it is fostered by many in this country and is epidemic in our educational system. We must not have unrest in the forest, so we keep all the trees equal with hatchet, axe and saw. Nice, helpless, compliant cogs for the machine.

here’s my two cents…. I try to live every day based on the wisdom in my heart, not the knowledge in my head…. there is some work being done (wish I could remember names) which is trying to prove that the heart, our hearts, have the ability to be intelligent… now that is very oversimplified but for me has credence…. will try to get more info and post it if anyone is interested…. love and peace’ Kathy

I’m enjoying all the discussion going on in the forums. A thought occurred to me about the “mirror” thing. You know what I mean. I understand and agree with what the mirror is and how it applies to us, but I also think that sometimes we see things in other people that irritate us because they are just irritating. Okay, stupidity and cruelty irritate me, and what I’m seeing that is irritating me is sometimes just the stupidity and cruelty. Now what THAT is telling me about myself is quite clear – it’s that I hate stupidity and cruelty – it’s not necessarily telling me that I am cruel or stupid. Many times that mirror can show us things about ourselves that we want to be aware of – our own ‘weaknesses’, faults or even joys and good things – sometimes we are just recognizing reality – or, at least, our best perspective of reality. You know what I mean? If I see someone being cruel to someone, it doesn’t necessarily mean that I am cruel to people – just that I don’t like cruelty. We are capable of reason and making sense of the mirror and what we are seeing in it.

I don,t know much about jung,haven,t read any of his writings,except what mara posted.Many things can be said about his thoughts.What he,s basically saying (whatever decade he did most of his writings)is that humans are not acknowledging the spiritual part of the human condition.I think he would have been more at ease with life if he could have watched some episodes of seinfeld.I could maybe give a serious answer when I read something he,s wrote when I get a chance…For now as Fraser Crane might say“everybody wang jung tonight”

my take on his word unindividuated.Most individuals especially in jungs era were victims to the collective conscious at the time,lacking individuallity he labelled them unindividuated.Simalarly today or recently society has conscious people and unconscious people the unconscious are a result of the collective unconscious and the collective unconscious is continuously perpetuated by television.If you ever get the chance,rent the movie or find it online somehow (NETWORK)BRILLIANT ACTING ALL STAR CAST,Faye Duneaway, William Holden, Peter Finch, Robert Duvall. A classic made in 1976 Well ahead of it,s time,won 7or8 academy awards the brillance of each acter can,t be overstated,they all took home an oscar.

Mara I didn’t notice this thread before but now I have to say it’s quite a coincidence because I have been reading quite a bit about Jung lately.

Right now I’m reading the writings of one of his disciples/successors, James Hillman.

I’m inspired by Jung’s Red Book , which is his secret book of drawings which was kept private and only published in 2009 after being locked up for half a century. No, I haven’t ssen it ($100 on Amazon) but I love the fact that he used those drawings to work through his own archetypal therapy. It inspired me to to do the same.

I thought about buying the Red Book, Mara. I actually can afford it, and might enjoy having it and loaning it to others.

I googled and found a few more pages and drawings from the book. Jung was a very capable artist and calligrapher. Beautiful pages.

But the more I read about it, the more I decided his book was a personal journal for him, not for me. I’m simply satisfied with the knowledge that he did it and it makes me more comfortable keeping my own books of drawings to work through my own internal dialog.

On the subject of Dr. James Hillman. I found this thought in one of his books last night. I’m slightly paraphrasing, but so what:

Words can be angels, carrying my soul to you and your soul to me.

So true.

See if this line from Walden stirs any similar thoughts.
“Why is it that a bucket of water soon becomes putrid, but frozen remains sweet forever? It is commonly said that this is the difference between the affections and the intellect.”
I was reminded of that while reading through this thread.

Just kind of off the cuff,the 5 factors jung spoke of seem like ingredients to a “happy and contented” existance.I would say that facter 5 is more vital than the other 4 or should be first on the list.On some days when life isn,t following my agenda,I need to consider a philosophical perspective.But if it,s up to me entirely I,ll have all 5 of the ingredients.

In response to Monkey's post:

This is 1 of my favorite Carl Jung quotes:

 

✰The greatest and most important problems of life are all fundamentally insoluble. They can never be solved but only outgrown. Carl Jung

 

Nice to see this thread again.

 thanks to new features, here are some pics I enjoyed/found.