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★Believe In A Creator +

★Believe In A Creator +

Anything that anyone gives attention to, becomes true

I believe that there is a God, but that ‘God’ is both simple and complex beyond the mind of man. I’m not just playing a word game here either. Is a rock simple or complex, it depends on how you look at it, doesn’t it? We are all a part of God: the smallest single living cell and the most complex living entity, the smallest subatomic particle and the most complex molecule. Some things are ‘alive’, that is, they have some sort of consciousness – they respond to their environment. Some things aren’t ‘alive’, yet the things that aren’t alive are still alive in the sense that they are moving, even if we can’t see it. All things are energy/waves. And all things are connected. They are even connected in ways that defy our understanding of physics. Think ‘quantum entanglement’ just for one example. We can’t explain it, but it’s real non-the-less. Some people will say that the universe is just chaos and that we apply order to it, but, I believe that there is order in the universe and it is our consciousness that has the ability to recognize it. That’s not the same thing: applying a quality vs. recognizing a quality. We are a part of God, and we are all connected to one another. We are, actually, all one – one with the earth, the tree, the worm, the rock the atom, and even an atom on the other side of the universe (or multiverse). I think it’s even possible that every single atom (whatever) is directly connected to every other atom (whatever) in the universe. We are all connected to God, whether we are aware of it or not. Everything is a part of God. Simply being ‘aware’, to me, is evidence of God, if you can call that evidence. Some things aren’t aware, aren’t conscious, but the fact that even one thing in the universe is aware, to me, points to the existence of God. As I am now I can no more comprehend the ‘mind’ of God than a jellyfish can comprehend my mind. We tend to anthropomorphize God. It is natural to do this, but it is a limited view of what God is. We have to ask questions that we simply can’t answer. Was there a beginning? Who started it? We know that nothing moves without some outside force acting on it, so, what started the universe moving? Then there are other questions that I can’t help but ponder. Did my soul pre-exist my body, or did I come into being when I was born, conceived, whatever? We humans can’t create or destroy matter, we can change some of it from one form/mixture/molecule to another, but that is it. Do we have a soul? What is it made of? I came from somewhere. Am I more than this body? When this body dies do I lose my sense of self or am “I” just gone? And, of course, am “I” really “Me”? I also wonder if thoughts are actually physical things. Kind of like a soul. We can measure brain activity, but beyond the chemical and electrical things we can measure, is there a part of a thought that is beyond our ability to measure, but real non-the-less – just a real as a stone. (Is there such a thing as ESP? Precognition? If so, then what we think of as ‘us’ is not limited to what our bodies are. We must be more than just this body if such things are real. I don’t know if they are real though, I’m just sayin’.) I believe that ‘prayer’ works, but, I believe it works not because a big invisible man in the sky decided to grant a wish, but, rather, it works because that is how the universe works. It’s how God works. We direct our energy, whether it is conscious direction or unconscious direction. Where we direct our energy is also influenced from outside ourselves and by others by our own perceptions of what is real whether we are conscious of those influences or not. When a bunch of people pray, whether they understand how it works or not, it directs energy. I can flip a switch and turn on a light, that doesn’t mean I understand the laws of physics. A primitive man would probably consider a flashlight to be magic. Anyway, that’s my two cents.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

…surrender- Today I’m grateful to surrender my life to You God. I am seen in a Good Light because You are My Light. I do Good things because you direct my ways. I believe Good things because You show me how to put my thoughts together. i feel wonderful because You are in my heart of hearts and allow Your Spark to fill my Spirit. All is well. It is all so.Amen.
  • ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Robert originally asked on this thread some great questions & I’m appreciative. questions: * Do I believe in a God/Creator? …Without a doubt. * If so what makes me feel most connected to this divinity and when do I feel It ‘strongly’ (these 2 questions go hand in hand for me). Beyond the awesome construction of the human body/Universe….I feel most connected when I am: In nature…in my home… when I’m around children, when I’m around the aged…when I remember…when I understand…when I feel healed…when I am healing…when I’m hopeful…when I’m grateful, when I’m appreciative, when “I” can detach from someone who says something untrue, harming or negative….and of course in the easy areas like……in my loving relationships where love and acceptance is a given, though also in the relationships that are not in my best interest…when I’m learning…when I’m sharing…when I’m achieving…when I miss the mark…when I feel joy…when I feel saddened, when I feel confused…timing…lack of timing….Bottom line…when I take the time…to acknowledge there is something Greater Than Myself…which I call God…everything has meaning and I feel connected in awesome ways. I guess I don’t like to determine when it is the ‘strongest’. When It is There…I am ok with that. I can generally sense when I have ‘strayed’ and need to ‘go back’.
    • What is the nature of your relationship with this divinity? I am a magnificent spark of God, but I am not God. Spark sounds small…but nothing about God is small or insignificant…therefore spark is relative to this awesomeness… or the relationship. I co-create with the God of my understanding, and this relationship grows as I stay open. I simply need to take time…center…and connect. feel this strongly and often by giving thought,not being in thought,…specific prayers letting go prayers… and yes meditation. I was once asked the question …do I meditate, and my response was sometimes. I have & do meditate with the traditional posture and think that is awesome. Though it took awhile for me to realize that the non-traditional ways (without lotus) was in fact meditating too…therefore…yes I do take time for this..regularly. I just never labeled it as meditation …and find this vital in connecting. I of course feel the strength of God- relationship in a spiritual service as well with the Power in numbers all praying together. What can I do to make this relationship stronger? Answer questions like yours, and continue on with routines that work…and believing in the non-routine part of life …that I am where I am supposed to be…and from here I can go ‘anywhere’.

My belief in God became before my understanding of how awesome the universe is. It was a given/instilled that God existed when I was a child. It was through life experience….that it had a chance to develop. And yes…I am in total awe of the Human Body …the Universe and various phenomenal constructs, and I truly believe ….not an accident; too many areas are too perfect and defy physics …

grateful….

Affirmation Quick Searchaffirmation tags
♫Frampton I love enjoying this surrender. It is always beyond my wildest imagination of completion

I think it is fine to question ‘God’. It is a good thing to do so, but, what you are really doing when you do this is questioning your own beliefs. When we say that ‘God’ ‘lets things happen’ we are anthropomorphizing God. It is hard for us to make sense of things like ‘child abuse’ or ‘rape’. Really hard. There are sick people in this world. Some are ‘more’ sick than others. In some ways we are all deluded, obviously, some are more deluded than others. We are all looking at the world from our own unique perspective, and some of us have pretty screwed up lenses. I do know that suffering serves a purpose, because without suffering we could not know joy. We don’t question gravity, we just accept it – it is. We know that trying to swim against the current is not very effective so we don’t usually do it. I don’t know where I’m going with all of this, but these are thoughts that your question brings up in me. One thing I’m sure of is that there are some questions that we simply can’t answer. It’s still good to think about them though. We are human and some things are just beyond our ability to comprehend. One thing that is valuable, I believe, is to get a better understanding of our own values. Get a good idea of what they are and put them in context. What are our real values? Are we living our lives according to our values? Most of us don’t – or maybe it’s better to say that most of us have some conflicting values and aren’t aware of them. The context that someone who has a strong belief/faith in the Catholic church, for example, is going to have very different values than a “hippie” for lack of a better term. Maybe hedonist. Their lives have very different values and the context of their lives/views are going to be very different. Can we say which is better? Well, yes and no. I think we can all agree that a sociopath is ‘wrong’ somewhere, whether it is a mental illness or whatever – we can clearly see that something is off. Clearly he has a screwed up value system and context – whatever the reason, we can all see it. The differences between the Catholic guy and the Hippie aren’t so clear. So, what am I trying to say here, (I’m just thinking out loud and writing thoughts along the way) I guess I’m saying that only by asking questions do we ever figure stuff out. Asking questions is why we don’t see many priests running around in temples cutting peoples hearts out to serve up to ‘God’ so we can have a good harvest. I think of a child who sincerely believes there is a monster under his bed? I think of the person in the mental ward who really believes that “they” really are out there and “they” really will get you if you go outside. “Don’t you see them”? From where he sits, WE are the crazy ones.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

In response to Smart_Routines_With_Enthusiasm’s post:
The question is as old as time, and just as relevant today…and yes without answers that will suit everyone. Thank you Mara for asking it for purposes of discussion. Excellent! /I like what Smart Routines said: [I think it is fine to question ‘God’. It is a good thing to do so, but, what you are really doing when you do this is questioning your own beliefs]

I believe when we question with motives of desiring wisdom… somewhere in it all… and not blocking it….we eventually receive answered prayer.
I can’t speak for the experiences of the world…but that has been my personal experience. There are faiths who debate much where the Creator is concerned, and the result has been more joy…more faith…more understanding…on pieces…and pieces of the whole. Pieces we get to understand…until we understand more…better..differently….until we are corrected.

In regard to the biggest life/spiritual lessons I’ve learned… …I was in awe how (it all came together…from major challenges) & what it took to open my eyes…with the result being… I no longer sweat the small stuff. And even with major losses of life; I received a better closure… perspective and true healing… And those lessons become deeply etched where I hadn’t gone before with success. They remain gifts…that I can’t ever forget exist. Sometimes I just need to prompt myself to unwrap these gifts and utilize what I’ve been given (: So in answer to your question…it isn’t bad…to question….& be less than content with life as you understand it..And question God as long as our questions do not block a response(: There will always be lessons/corrections…and discomfort… Again, I cannot change places with “the world”…I prefer not to try. I just know…questioning God is normal conversation. I’m grateful I was answered… corrected in my own ways (beliefs, routines, disciplines, energy I give or don’t give things)…when I am taught from Something Greater than myself.
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One of my favorite quotes were these well-known words written by an unknown Confederate soldier:

I asked for strength, that I might achieve,
I was made weak, that I might learn humility.

I asked for health, that I might do greater things.
I was given infirmity, that I might do better things.

I asked for riches, that I might be happy,
I was given poverty, that I might be wise.

I asked for power, that I might have the praise of others,
I was given weakness, that I might feel the need of God.

I asked for all things that I might enjoy life,
I was given life that I might enjoy all things.

I got nothing that I had asked for –
but everything I had hoped for.

Almost, despite myself, my unspoken prayers were answered.
I am… most richly blessed.

Affirmation Quick Searchaffirmation tags
♫Frampton I love enjoying this surrender. It is always beyond my wildest imagination of completion

It would be worthwhile to have a discussion on ‘evil’. Hate and jealousy, for me, are easier to get my head around, but evil – that is a little more difficult. Evil, to me, connotes some sort of malevolent force, but does an evil force really exist? There are people in the world who want to hurt others. Their actions can be ‘evil’. I’d be happy to flip the switch on some of them. The world would be a better place without them in it. However, their thoughts and actions come from something other than an ‘evil force’ or ‘entity’, I believe. To me, what we see as evil, and we can all pretty much agree on some things that are obviously evil (some are less obvious), are the actions of a confused person or group. So, I have to think thoughts about ‘confusion’ – what it is and why it exists. Does confusion have a purpose? Maybe it is there to instruct or something like that. If a lion bites the throat of a lamb it’s not evil, but if a human were to do something like that then, well, it’s evil. So there has to be something about evil that applies only to humans. Why can a human be evil, but a lion ‘not’ be evil. I guess a pit bull or lion can be made to seem ‘evil’ by a human or maybe some animals are more naturally aggressive than others, individual animals within a species might even be seen to be more evil or whatever than others of that species, but you know what I’m saying there. A kitten ‘torturing’ a mouse isn’t really ‘torturing’ the mouse, he is doing something instinctual. Cruelty is confined to humans. (I remember a movie a while back that was based on true events in which lions were killing humans apparently just to kill them. I think it was called Ghost in the Darkness.) Anyway, there are some evil people that are too dangerous to have around and I, for one think they should be done away with. Many politicians come to mind, I say that only half in jest, because when people spread lies and mislead people intentionally, whether it is on a small scale and with non-murderous tactics like innuendo or painting someone as good or bad with guilt by association when there is no pattern of behavior to reference with which to make a rational judgement, or on a grand scale through media even if it isn’t bloodcurdling, they are doing evil – a less obvious, but still insidious kind of evil. There are plenty of examples we can see on our own televisions every day that are less sanguinous, but evil still – lies, half-truths and propaganda that kill peoples souls and makes them brainless sheep. I am digressing from my original thought a bit, but isn’t the kind of evil I’m talking about now even worse in some respects than the individual evil act, (what could be worse than abusing a child, or mutilating someone or raping someone – there are monsters among us who do these things and it might not be very enlightened of me, but I’d rather cut them out than try to cure them) not an evil act against an individual, but the kind that affects millions perhaps – a death by a thousand cuts type of thing. Perhaps ‘evil’ serves as a catalyst for change. When we see evil we wake up. Sometimes we do things to create change when we see evil. Perhaps evil is a sort of disease that makes us all stronger in the long run, kind of like suffering. Could it be that evil is like a mutation that serves an evolutionary role for the soul – the soul of a man or even of mankind. I don’t know, just a parting thought. And one last thought for mulling over; can a person spread evil and not be evil? If a leader thrills his audiences by spreading bad information and doesn’t know that what he is saying is wrong, then that leader/savior/profit himself isn’t evil – but his fruits are evil. A brainwashed brainwasher brainwashing is just a brainwasher – not an evil brainwasher. If he knows he is spreading lies, then he is evil, even if he isn’t Dracula. None of us are wholly good or evil – but, some are more evil than others.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

Carrying a gun and having the right to carry a gun aren’t exactly the same thing. From Wiki: American settlers viewed the right to arms and/or the right to bear arms and/or state militias as important for one or more of these purposes: deterring tyrannical government; repelling invasion; suppressing insurrection; facilitating a natural right of self-defense; participating in law enforcement; enabling the people to organize a militia system.

Those sound like pretty good reasons to me for someone to have the right to bear arms. Most people don’t carry guns around with them. A 2×4 or an ice pick can be just as deadly as a gun. Obviously, it depends on how it is used. It depends on who has it. A gun is just a tool. A good book can be a wonderful tool. I find it interesting how much books and guns have in common. Some people like to burn books, some like to take guns. Lots of killing in the world and if guns didn’t exist they would be invented because men are always trying to find ways to take stuff from other men. Kind of like athiests and God. An athiest would like to get rid of the idea of God. Let’s say they did get rid of the idea of God. Well, the idea of God would arise again almost instantly because it’s the nature of man to think and wonder. It is the right of man to defend himself against another man or an oppressive government. You can no more wish away guns than you can wish away God, or the air, or thinking or the nature of man. To me, taking away a man’s right to bear arms is about the same thing as throwing babies to wolves. The truth is, you can’t take guns away from bad people who want them anyway. Prohibition doesn’t get rid of bad stuff, it just creates a black market for it.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

The Enlightened Chief

I was thinking of the Native Americans. I’m picturing the chief of a tribe telling his people to turn in all their tomahawks and bows to him so that he could destroy them. You see, the chief had had a vision from the great spirit. Destroying all the weapons would make his people prosperous and safe. In those old movies you hardly ever saw the “Indian” laugh. If I could film the scene you can bet there would be a lot of laughing Indians in it. That chief wouldn’t be chief very long. The chief was chief because his people respected him. He wasn’t chief because they feared him. Life and death was pretty serious business. It would have been for us too if we had been there back then. It still is in lots of places. Let’s say, though, for some nutty reason the people did what this chief wanted. They destroyed all their weapons. What would happen to that tribe? All of the men and boys would certainly be killed by an enemy tribe. The women and babies that weren’t killed would be taken. Unless, of course, they all starved to death or the elements got them first. The chief’s vision wasn’t from the great spirit after all. It was a crazy dream. And now he and his people are dead or are in a tribe where they still have bows and tomahawks.

In a world with no guns the foolish are killed with clubs.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

god and guns,These days I think god is in the eye of the beholder,such as beauty.If you firmly beleive in god then their,s a good chance,he, she, or it, does exist both subjectively(in your personal life)and objectively(nature,cosmic mystery,divine intelligence,etc.etc.)I can know unequivically that the sun exists,without knowing exactly how it functions and maintains it,s energy.I know a car exists,and serves it,s purpose,without the knowledge of how an internal combustion engine works.So most days I can give god the benifit of the doubt,with all she, he, or it,s phenomenal attributes…I think it,s also possible that another planet in the vastness of the universe,that is inhabited by people that graduated previously from this planet exists,I,m not saying it,s probable,I,m saying it,s possible,similar to what religous people call heaven,I wouldn,t bet on it,but when you consider earth is to the vastness of the universe,as a grain of sand is to the vastness of a beach?

Here is another out there thought, EZ. They estimate that the earth is around 5 billion years old. That means that a civilization more advanced than us could have already come into being and perished on this planet already and we know nothing about them.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

Mara mentioned Ghandi on another thread. Food for thought!

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

sure cell phones, dvd,s, and honda accords, might have been invented a billion years ago.Then the planet became uninhabitable,then started it,s rejuvenating process a million years later.But something tells me all the creative inventions that we enjoy today,are here for the first time.Not that all these things invented in the 20 and 21st century are synonomous with spiritual progress,they have made human existance more interesting,yet possibly hindering the potential for higher consciousness,like I may have said before,this is a school that takes many lifetimes to receive your diploma.On the other hand it is within the realm of possibilities to achieve the ultimate degree of spiritual progress in this lifetime.Yes it could also be said that we are already enlightened but nobody knows how to wake up,or chooses to stay limited because it,s alot less lonely…Again don,t carve any of this in stone,it,s just my thoughts good, bad,or indifferent.

I dig what you wrote, man! Maybe they were so advanced that they did away with all of their technology and erased it from the earth – maybe they evolved into pure energy! Dig it, baby, dig it!

Pass the Dutchie
Red Red Wine
Purple Haze
Muggles

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

Most technology serves a good purpose for us,and could potentially help civilization keep it,s act together for many more decades or centuries,not to disagree with your post,that was humourous.The desalination of ocean water is an example of technology that the world is gonna need.Maybe someone knows how to spell that word.

I remember when Haiti had their disaster. I was wondering about clean water and looked up how cruise ships purified water. I was thinking maybe they could use some similar way to get clean drinking water from the ocean. Well, it can be done and the technology is readily available. I even posted some stuff about it. It really bugs me how our governments loves to just throw away money into black holes with no accountability. They could have easily set up clean water plants for the amount of money that went into corrupt hands right after all that mess. You want to talk about a practical use for solar power. Haiti would be a great place for a practical project like that. A solar powered desalination plant/plants in Haiti. Clean water supplied by clean power operated by people who need employment. Win, win, win.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

Being connected to oneself is being in touch with God. When we are connected with ourselves, we are aware of the magnificent power of God’s Love and benevolence.
My entire life has been an ongoing, continuous dialogue with God. I always put forward my thoughts to God- by asking oneself and waiting patiently for the answer. I get my answer through various means – sometimes by simply observing what is happening around me, sometimes by participating in a discussion and sometimes by simply allowing time to heal.
Unless and untill we have faith in life, we cannot fathom the depth of god’s love and connection with our hearts.Throughout the day…all my activities are dedicated to life -when I say dedicate to life it basically means that through my actions I worship God and hence I am connected. My connection with God is felt most when I lay down at the end of the day and watch my husband sleep- like an innocent child. I realize God’s awesome grace and blessings. He makes me realize and cherish love in its purest form – appreciating my love when he is not even aware that i am watching over him with all my love and affection and praying for his well being, success and joy.

An atheist says there is no god. He says that somehow the universe just is and the planets and you and everything else just happened. You just somehow are a thinking being. Let me emphasize that last part there, a THINKING being. You are aware. So, if there is no order or design then how can we think – our thoughts are based in nothing – and not only should we NOT be aware, we certainly couldn’t think, but we can and do. So, doesn’t an atheist have to concede that his thoughts have no basis in any order or design and therefore couldn’t be trusted? How can an atheist trust his own thoughts that tell him there is no god. Order doesn’t just happen. You can fill a bucket with a million little pieces of paper each with a letter written on it and empty it out – you won’t get a dictionary.

Why am I harping on the order thing? I’m doing it for me, for my understanding. Am I trying to resolve something that can’t be resolved? Yes. Am I ‘applying’ meaning where there is none? I don’t think so. What is the difference between a bucket of letters and a bucket of sand, the bucket of sand will have a kind of order also when you dump it out? The difference, thought, is that making words out of letters has a very specific meaning, the grains of sand don’t. It is through awareness, thinking, and free will that we have the power to give specific meanings to at least some things.

Also, if there is no God, why are we aware of evil. AWARE is the key word there. Where does the standard come from? Natural Law, the Natural Law of Man that is, comes from somewhere. It’s not like the law of gravity, which just sort of describes what is happening, a rock rolls downhill, a man has a moral law that he can choose to disregard, but even when he makes that choice it is a choice to disobey the moral law. See, there is a standard. If there is no standard, there there can be no right and wrong by which to judge. You can do good without having to like it because it is the right thing to do. Bad doesn’t work the same way. You can’t do bad for the sake of bad because it is the right thing to do. If you do bad, you do it for some perceived good reason, whether that reason is twisted or not. There is a moral law that exists. Why is that? Why does an atheist obey a moral law? He must have some standard of behavior. Does he do good simply because he can’t get away with doing whatever he wants? If he does the “right” thing, what is telling him what the “right” thing is?

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

Okay, when someone says that God is the same as a unicorn I have to stop and say, no, no they are not the same thing. I know that on earth, anyway, there are no unicorns. I don’t KNOW that there is no god. Actually, I lean toward the “there is a God” camp and for a reason. I mentioned already that ‘order’ doesn’t just happen. Also, order is not imagined, it is real. Something has to create order. The fact that you can recognize a pattern or order indicates that something has acted on something to create order. To say that order ‘just is’ is more fantastical of an idea than a unicorn. Order, ‘just is’ is less rational than ‘God exists’. If you were to erase the idea of God, and unicorns from the mind of man, it would only be a matter of time, probably a matter of minutes when the idea of ‘God’ would return. Can’t say that about unicorns. Unicorns would probably take months. But, let’s get past that bit and for arguments sake let’s say that there IS a “God”. Why would “God” permit evil to exist. I’d have to say that evil is choosing to disobey the natural laws of God. The natural law of doing what is “right” whether it is easy to do so or not. We, I believe, KNOW when we are doing wrong. The natural law speaks to us from within. The natural law is just as real as gravity, the difference is that we don’t have to obey the natural law – God’s law. I don’t care what your name for God is, but the natural law comes from God. It exists in each of us, it’s not like some people DON’T have it. Individuals or cultures might interpret it in slightly different ways by the law I’m talking about is the same for all of us whether we acknowledge it or not. I said all that so I could come back around to evil. Why is there evil? If God is perfect then how can their be evil? Well, I think when a creature becomes ‘self-aware’ that he gains free will. An animal acts out of instinct which is different than ‘free will’. An animal in a very real sense, in my opinion as it stands right now, is already ‘one with the will of God’. Free-will doesn’t matter for such a creature. A lower animal ALWAYS obeys the moral law of God by its very nature. I don’t know WHY God gave man free will, but we have it. I can speculate on some reasons as to why, but I may write some thoughts about that later, for now I want to get back to the free will and evil stuff. My thinking on this is not real complicated and it’s something like this: We are not machines – we are free, self-aware, creative, powerful beings. We ain’t rocks and we ain’t Swiss watches – we have free will. God is kind of like a parent. Sometimes we listen to him and sometimes we don’t. He want’s us to follow the natural law and to the right, I said RIGHT and not EASY, thing. He just doesn’t MAKE us do it. AND the purpose of evil – not following the natural law of God – serves us by teaching us. It’s similar to the way suffering teaches us, though suffering is not the same thing as evil. If you and I find meaning in children and things we create couldn’t God? We can find meaning and purpose in creating a painting, though a painting doesn’t have free will, and we can also find meaning in children who do. Creating beings with free-will is a pretty brave thing. A being with free will can make choices.

Anyway, those are just some more thoughts I had and wanted to share somewhere.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

Interesting. Some things are clear aren’t they? Temperature, measurements, stuff like that. What about conscience? Does conscience exist without scientific proof?

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

Are there things that we ‘know’ exist without being able to ‘prove’ that they exist? I’m not sure. What do you guys think about something more ‘real’ than abstract; something like the matter inside a black hole, or the mass of light or even something like love? Can we prove that numbers even exist? Can we destroy something that doesn’t exist by pretending that it doesn’t exist? If we pretend that a triangle doesn’t exist then does that mean that a triangle is not a real thing? I want to take the ‘pretend’ part away. If we don’t KNOW about something that does exist, then does it exist? I’m certain there are many thing that we don’t know of that do indeed exist. We can’t prove the existence of planets we don’t know about, but we can use reason to make a good guess that they are out there. Discussing the existence of God is, to me, not the same sort of thing as discussing the existence of something that is a fantasy like a unicorn. It’s not just a theological or religious question to me, it’s also a philosophical and spiritual question. It is a fundamental question – how do we know what we know?

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

Me too, Mara. I often question what I believe.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

I understand where you are coming from. To me, though, a lack of hard, measurable evidence is not the same thing as a lack of evidence. Would numbers exist if there were no people in the world? That is worth pondering. I’d say yes they would. You could also ask would the world itself exist if there were no people in the world. To me, the very existence of thought and awareness are evidence of God, but I realize that you don’t believe that. Also, to me that some order exists is evidence. Even if there were only one self-aware being in the universe, to me that would be evidence of God. Well, I know for certain that there is at least one aware being in the universe, that being is me. I am aware that there is something inside of me that comes from somewhere. Do you at least see where I’m coming from. I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind, just express my thinking.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

Jacob, you got me thinking. I did quite a few searches using various terms like “list atheist philosophers”, and “list philosophers who believe that god exists” and so on and on. It took me a while, but I finally found something I thought was worth posting. A Post I found on a site called Maverick Philosopher
There are an awful lot of very smart people who say there is no God, however.

I used to have a sweatshirt that read:
God is dead.
Nietzsche

and under that is said:
Nietzsche is dead.
God

I did find this list of Atheists on wiki , but that list also included agnostics, which, in my view are not atheists. I believe Bertrand Russell was an atheist, and I’m certain there are many more brilliant atheists. Nietzsche, some people say Schopenhauer was one, though I’m not sure about that. I’m no expert on this stuff by any means, most of this stuff I’m listing are just things I’m finding by quick glances and searches on the net.

Here are some famous people I know of that say that a god exists – what God is varies, but none of ‘em say there is no God. Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Bacon, Hume, Mill, Einstein, the Founding Fathers, Confucius, Hegel, Voltaire, and many, many more.

If I made a list of both atheists and theists, I’m pretty sure the theist list would have more recognized names on it. I’m not saying it would be a better list, just more recognized. Of course, I would think the theist list is the better list of the two.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

Questions of Faith, that was the original title of the thread. Let’s talk about faith with regard to achievement. What was that about a mustard seed? I don’t think that that thing about the mustard seed was an analogy, but a fact. I’m gonna throw in a dangerous name here: Jesus. I know, I know, let’s not bring Jesus up. I’m not trying to preach or convert anyone to anything or anything like that, but I want to talk about “miracles” for a second. Faith and Miracles. This is going to sound crazy, but I’m going to put it out there anyway.

If Jesus could perform miracles, it’s not because he was God, he said he was and I’m not trying to argue that point one way or another, he may have been God, but I don’t think he was insane in either case, let’s say he wasn’t – he was able to perform miracles because he had no doubt. Are the tales of his miracles only tales, I can’t say, but something that might seem miraculous to ordinary every day people might be possible to a person who had enough faith. By that I mean that he wasn’t separated from God like most people.

Now, that may be a kooky idea, I admit, I’m not even saying that I believe it, what I’m saying is that our power could come from God and our separation from God is why we are not performing miracles every day.

Okay, so, I wrote it, that’s how crazy Jeff is. It’s just a thought, folks. I have lots of crazy thoughts, it don’t make me crazy.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

Here is another crazy thought.

If matter is really energy, then we are only energy and everything else is only energy so nothing is really solid so – and I don’t now where I’m going with this – however it is that I’m thinking and seeing and sensing anything is somehow energy seeing energy and how can I differentiate anything from anything and what is holding it all together – it’s just energy somehow working together somehow to create all form – and if everything we can perceive is really energy is thought energy – how is it ordered and why… If I’m only energy, then in reality I am nothing, I am only part of everything in a sense – I’m just a drop of water in a bucket of water so to speak, you, me and everything else is water in water – anyone follow what I’m saying? Am I simultaneously nothing and everything? What differentiates me from the everything? I am a point of awareness. My thinking is originating from somewhere. I exist in space. My perception seems limited in the real world by space and time, but maybe when I as ME ceases to be ‘contained’ somehow then maybe my limits of perception fall away. That video I watched the other day about the brain scientist who had the stroke, maybe there is something there, it’s what got my mind spinning around these thoughts I think.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

can evolution and creationism co exist,is there room in science for god.do you believe in one,both or none.why do you believe what you believe,do your beliefs prove others wrong.is it realistic to mix both beliefs.

Anything that anyone gives attention to, becomes true

In response to mara’s post:
First I’d like to thank Mara for another wonderful question. And Abraham, I agree with you, and will attempt to expound at a later time…because this will take some more thought. Looking forward to this discussion.

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♫Frampton I love enjoying this surrender. It is always beyond my wildest imagination of completion

I was trying to put some thoughts into words, but couldn’t come up with the right ones, but it was about and math and to me what I wanted to say is kind of touched on in this article I just found to replace my original post. See if you can see why I think this fits in this thread. To me is kind of has to do with the divinity we see in creation. I wish I could put into words what I’m thinking, but I’m having a difficult time doing that at the moment.

Pythagoras

I was trying to get at something similar to this with regard to math and equations, but couldn’t find the words.

Incidentally, that site where I found that article looks amazing. I just bookmarked it. Check out the homepage. TONS of great stuff there.

Also found This great site today too.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

I’m going to make another feeble attempt. Okay, so we know that right angles exist, but no one can make one. You can’t draw one ‘cause no matter how close you get it can always be more accurate than what you have drawn. Try as you might it can still be made more accurate. We know they exist, but you can’t make one, you can only conceive of one. There are an infinite number of right angles floating around in space, but you can’t even make one.

Now, consider this. A mathematician somewhere a long time ago, not any one in particular, but, a mathematician was doing whatever it is that mathematicians do and this fellow comes up with a beautiful equation. He says, wow, that sure is a nice equation, I don’t know what it means, but it’s a nice equation. Then a hundred or a thousand years later some scientist is studying something or other, it could be starfish, it could be a weird plant, whatever it is, he figures out something about what he is studying and it turns out that that equation that that mathematician came up with years ago in the past applies perfectly to what he is studying. See what I’m getting at? There is a natural order that exists, to me, a divine order. It exists throughout the universe. We may not see it – not the whole thing, anyway – but it’s there. We can’t see all of it, but we don’t have to see all of it to know it is there. If we can see just some of it we know it’s there.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

Personally, I do not believe a God or creator exists but I respect others right to believe what they do. I also believe that when I die, my mind / consciousness, along with my entire life memories and loves and experiences, also dies and that’s it. I’m trying to think how to explain my outlook on life but it’s kind of hard because I don’t wish to offend anyone’s beliefs and I want to explain my views in the most honest yet non-disrespective manner. To quote Stephen Fry “it is essntial to nail one’s colours to the mast as a humanist.”

In response to Harley Duck’s post:
It takes courage to have a difference of opinion among others . The fact that you did so and last but not least with such respect for others is beyond admirable.

While I wholeheartedly do believe in God of my understanding, I hope always express myself in such a way that I’m respectful of others as you have demonstrated. I do try. Though, I’m sure there is always room for improvement.

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♫Frampton I love enjoying this surrender. It is always beyond my wildest imagination of completion

example of awesome intricacy

In response to abraham’s post:

  • Enjoyed your analogy and your respect for different points of view.
  • And yes, your analogy does express my thought and feeling on the matter.
  • In my life, I have found some may minimize the view you described…as the “seek and you shall find”. For example if you look for awesome intricacy – you shall find. If you seek a crumbling world ..you shall find. The world, as Jeff & others try so hard to find words for…is a magnificent…an utterly awesome creation.
  • Awesome Intricacy is everywhere…among our minds, body, and yes within our soul/spirit of being. That is my view…

….now on that note…I move on with my day…with gratitude for the freedom to believe, express and feel peace. I’m thankful.

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♫Frampton I love enjoying this surrender. It is always beyond my wildest imagination of completion

If God does truly exist He/She is nothing like we expect Him/Her to be!

“Pagans share a love of nature and a commitment to live in harmony with the earth and her creatures. You need to feel in your heart that this is where your own spirituality is leading you. Only you know if you are a pagan in your heart”
from www,everythingunderthemoon.net

Nature is the space I go to for healing ,gratitude,peace,spiritual connection,joy,comfort and love .Although I have experienced other faiths and religions being Pagan is something deep inside me where I know I belong
love flowergirl

i read somewhere that paganism can be traced back to the stone age,pagans have so much love and respect for mother earth,while there are many paths to finding god or gods,paganism seems a lovely path to follow.wonderful.

Anything that anyone gives attention to, becomes true

I can elaborate later,all i can say for now is i started to believe in god,cosmic energy,a higher power,divine creation in my early 20,s,right around the time i accepted the fact that i was not in charge of the universe.Circumstances in an individuals life tend to persuade a person to believe or not,free will.I think if you put a bunch of people that don,t really think about god that much,in the middle of a desert with no water,a few might actually mumble some prayers…my best description of god is love,or good minuse an o.That,s all i got for now,god is gracious.

In response to mara’s post:
thank you so much mara for your lovely words .

Today is Friday, December 14th 2012 and my heart is breaking for those families in Connecticut who lost their loved ones. The loss of any close family member or friend is difficult, but it seems even more heartbreaking when it is a child who dies. Dwelling on these thoughts bring tears to my eyes, but it also reminds me how much my own loved ones mean to me. Tonight, tomorrow, next week, the next time you are with someone you love and a tragedy like this crosses your mind, take a minute and give that person a real hug and let them know you love them. My thoughts, they feel like prayers to me, my thoughts and prayers have come out of me several times today. Questions also. Why? Why? Why? Who could do such a thing? I don’t feel, especially at this moment, that I can tell anyone to have faith. I can only say that I feel like I’m praying to someone out there and it doesn’t feel to me like it’s meaningless – the prayer. Maybe it is. I don’t know, but for some reason I can’t help but pray or think or whatever it’s called. This tragedy reminds me that the world is full of tragedy and sadness. We don’t dwell on it all the time, but it is always there. I wonder as I write what goes through the mind of professed atheists at times like this. Where do they find comfort? I can’t begin to guess. I just know I feel like praying.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

how could a loving god let this happen,i dont know,what i do know is my heart weeps for those little children

Anything that anyone gives attention to, becomes true

In response to abraham’s post:
In response to mara’s post:
In response to Smart_Routines_With_Enthusiasm’s post:
As a community, and all who are reading this…if you believe in a Higher Power ….something greater than yourself…let us come together and pray prayers of peace for the families…for the world. When 2 or more are gathered…lets believe in more than just an affirming prayer of ourselves…but the like minded others who believe that healing in the hearts of all who are affected by such travesty are receiving some comfort. We cant…but Something Greater can…I choose to call this Greater God./ Healing. Peace. Love. And it is so. Amen. While some believe, prayers are no longer enough , it makes me question…if prayers were more part of the mass culture …with respect for different ways of prayer …. Something Different …Something Better would be. How would be know…since prayer has become such an optional frill or simply vetoed?
May we love ever more.
May we motivate ourselves to committed love in Action.
May we motivate ourselves to live the life we wish to see in the world.
May we be the transformation we wish to see in the world.
From the inside out . . .
From the roots branching upwards . . .
From the heart
to thought
to word
to action.
Through life’s trials and hardships
we can arise beautiful and free.

for luna – julia butterfly hill – 11/26/2000

a prayer-poem written by smartroutines

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♫Frampton I love enjoying this surrender. It is always beyond my wildest imagination of completion

sending love to everyone affected by this tragedy

Even Though You Are Gone

I had a feeling this “gun ownership” thing would come up. I still whole-heartedly support the right to keep and bear arms. Taking guns away from law abiding citizens does not make society safer. I’m not trying to start an argument I just won’t remain silent when I hear something I disagree with so strongly.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

Really? “America” killed those children? No, a crazy person killed those children. Sane people don’t do that kind of thing. I’ve lived pretty much my whole live in America and I’ve never met one single child killer that I know of. Our government, though, it has lots of blood on it’s hands. So do lots of governments. A lot Americans do kill children though now that I think about it. They just call them fetuses so they can pretend it’s no big deal.

“Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.”
— Mohandas Ghandi.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

In response to abraham’s post:
I was re-reading this thread. I like this post. To me, science IS the search to understand the world and God – it’s the same thing.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

In response to mara’s post:

  • ** When I heard the news I saw this in our break room at work..Many mothers watching in shock..as they think of those children and fear the safety of their own is this world. Many individuals who already have a full plate in life…wondered where is the insanity going to end?
  • ** Yes…Mara, this gives model citizens a bad name…it makes us wonder…is that person really “good” (that person we have given our trust to..that has never given us real reason to doubt significantly)…and has us question beyond what is reasonable…because there was no reason for this?
  • ** My thought is going to leave the suffering subject right now. That kind of senseless act …makes it even more important not to lose faith or hope while I can..because life is fragile…This horrendous incident just exemplifies how we must give well to ourselves…& to those we love…while we can…because we cannot always control everything.
  • ** As “answers” emerge where I/we can make a difference…to help prevent anything terrible in the world…I want to understand my/our part(s). Because this was another devastating event…(children…innocent children)that I can’t sink my heart around…
  • ** It’s ironic that I started a thread that expressed my faith was recently rebooted…when there is so much suffering in the world. I have no answers as to why things happen like this…I will simply continue to hope and pray that the families receive the best help that is out there…
  • ** In regard to this thread-discussion…it is one of the best discussion threads on the site. Members have dug into all that makes them who they are…and gave heart and soul responses to magnificent questions.
  • ** Mara, thanks for this thread. Members thanks for all of your contributions. It is good to come together …to have a place to discuss/share whenever possible…a place we can trust.

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♫Frampton I love enjoying this surrender. It is always beyond my wildest imagination of completion

I can’t even watch the news about it. I feel broken-hearted and angry.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

A Call for Spiritual Activism Around Gun Violence

This is something I will join in with privately .

love flowergirl

How about against all violence. I don’t like this road. A person bent on destruction doesn’t need a gun. If he hadn’t had a gun he could just as easily plowed into a group of children with a car. Danny Pearl didn’t have his head cut off with a gun. The purpose of the second amendment is to protect the people from the government. The intent is for the government to fear the people and not the other way around.

Ottoman Turkey, Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, China Nationalist, Red China, Guatemala, Uganda, Cambodia, and Rwanda all slaughtered their citizens. Over 100 MILLION in the past hundred years. And let’s not forget that Mexico has far stricter gun laws than the US. Every one of the governments I listed enacted gun control laws before they slaughtered their people.

It starts with speaking out against the government. Then people are “labeled”. Then they are rounded up and then they are killed. Our government murdered men, women and children in Waco, Texas just a few short years ago.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

In response to Smart_Routines_With_Enthusiasm’s post:
I am not watching the news …anymore…I cannot right now.
I rec’d this in my email today from a newsletter I receive:

I’m not going to mince words today. I have spent much of this weekend trying to get my mind around the magnitude of the senseless murders in Newtown, CT. Everyone in this country is talking about it… even if they aren’t talking about it. The deeper conversation is often the non-verbal one.

The sadness permeates… everything and everywhere.

I wondered what part of this to focus on here in this newsletter… I couldn’t possibly ignore it. But I asked myself what is and isn’t appropriate or necessary. And how best to honor the victims. I’m not interested in sparking a political/moral/ethical debate over gun control or even to discuss the lack of care for the mentally ill, even if I do happen to agree that more support and help need to be available. I won’t ponder the fate of modern day society’s cultural norms. And I’m definitely not going to take on the media’s coverage of the tragic events or recount the grim details.

I will spare you of all of this. Here I’ll simply give you my opinion on grief.

It is deeply personal, as you all know. It will reveal itself in each of us in vastly different ways. Some will seek solace in others, some in solitude. Some will speak out, and some will sit in the silence of their anguish. Some will cry, and others will not. Many of us will always wonder why? And question how to pick up the pieces.

What is to be remembered here is that we mustn’t judge how this grief is handled, but rather, accept each manifestation of it and treat each other with Patience, Kindness and Love while going through the process.

I will finish here because in moments like this one I think we all need to listen more than speak and sit quietly with profound reverence and understanding for humanity.

With patience, kindness and love…
Erin

  • >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    I posted this because…I don’t want to silence anyone…We all are grieving…questioning…feeling…

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♫Frampton I love enjoying this surrender. It is always beyond my wildest imagination of completion

is there an alternative togod

Anything that anyone gives attention to, becomes true

  • Department of Peace short video
  • Spirituality & Politics
  • ** Prayer for Connecticut by Marianne Williamson
    For those who bear tonight the unbearable burden
    of unimaginable grief,
    who in their agony yell at the forces of fate…
    For those who moan and those who faint,
    for those who rage and those who pray,
    we moan and pray along with you.
    For tonight, those were our children too.
    Dear God, May a legion of angels
    come upon these parents.
    Bring to them an otherworldly touch,
    an otherworldly comfort,
    an otherworldly sense that their children are well –
    that they are safe with God
    and shall be with them always.
    Give to those who grieve what no mortal can give…
    the touch of Your Hand upon their heart.
    May all touched by this darkness
    be Lit by Your grace.
    Please wipe away all tears, dear God.
    as only You can do.
    Amen

This is what preceded the prayer above from that site
After the horrific events in Connecticut this week, we have much to think about both spiritually and politically. The problem of violence in America is obviously a multi-dimensional issue with many root causes, and it will take all of our efforts – both individually and collectively – to create the peaceful world in which such horrors do not exist. We will only end the culture of violence in the United States when we commit to the creation of a culture of peace.

On Bmindful site …our common ground is Love.

  • ** On a personal level of views of God…like many mine is growing…developing into my personal understanding…and with that context… that allows me something that is vital for life. I’m grateful I can share what is so precious to me…with those who respect and feel at peace to share what gives them peace and direction as well. with respect and love, selfcare

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♫Frampton I love enjoying this surrender. It is always beyond my wildest imagination of completion

In response to abraham’s post:
Enough said!

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

Disarming a nation is naive. If we ban cars, less people will die in car wrecks. It’s the person, not the tool. Chicago has very tough gun restrictions and it’s one of the most dangerous cities in the country. I don’t see what is so hard to understand about that.

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.” — Proposed Virginia Constitution, 1776

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” — Jefferson’s “Commonplace Book,” 1774-1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764

— Thomas Jefferson

The Constitution preserves “the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation. . . (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.” — The Federalist, No. 46

- James Madison

[I]f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights and those of their fellow citizens.” — The Federalist, No. 29

- Alexander Hamilton

“[A]rms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.” — Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775

- Thomas Paine

“Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people’s liberty teeth keystone… the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable… more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference. When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour.”

- George Washington

“On every question of construction (of the Constitution) let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed.” 12 Jun 1823 (The Complete Jefferson p.32) “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.” (Jefferson Papers, p. 334, C.J. Boyd, 1950) “The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” (Thomas Jefferson Papers p. 334, 1950) “And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms…The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” Letter to William S. Smith 13 Nov 1787 (Jefferson, On Democracy p. 20, 1939; Padover, editor) “The few cases wherein these things (proposed Bill of Rights) may do evil, cannot be weighed against the multitude where the want of them will do evil…I hope therefore a bill of rights will be formed to guard the people against the federal government…” (letter to Madison 31 July 1788, The Papers of James Madison, Hobson & Rutland, p.11:212) “I have a right to nothing which another has a right to take away.” (letter to Uriah Forrest, 1787, Jefferson Papers, 12:477) “Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add ‘within the limits of the law,’ because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.” (letter to Isaac Tifany, 1819)

- Thomas Jefferson

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed….” (An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, Webster1787)
“A people can never be deprived of their liberties, while they retain in their own hands, a power sufficient to any other power in the state.” (Webster, p.42-43)

- Noah Webster

That is just the top of the iceberg of word by great men concerning the right to bear arms.

Ya’ know who was a big supporter of gun control? Adolf Hitler.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

  • Something I realized about my reaction of grief…was it was still one of shock. It seems…all I could do ->read what ever anyone else was writing…If it went too much to one side or another…I was unable to involve myself….until..I read something in my email today from a mentor more geared toward women, a mentor…I respect and who often has stated things well for me . Her name is Jennifer Louden. And once again…she said some things I haven’t been able to express… This was Jennifer Louden’s reaction below:
  • I have not cried since I learned about the massacre in Newton.

Teared up, yes. Nodded my head in sadness when others cried, of course.

But no tears, no weeping, no throwing myself on the floor and screaming myself hoarse like a dear friend.

I have not cried because instead of grief, I have only felt black rage. Gut-choking anger. Irritated beyond measure. I have railed at almost every blog post and article about Newton, angry at writers telling me I must not avoid the event but grieve it; I must not blame; I must wait to talk about gun control; that if I can just let go of my fearful thoughts…

I have railed against it all, feeling that nobody gets it. I told my friend Michele everybody has their heads up their spiritual butts. Oh yes, I have been angry.

Yet I have also been confused because my rage has had no object – besides innocent bloggers. I did not blame the young man or his mother. I didn’t curse the NRA or the people who make the semi-automatic guns and those deadly gun magazines. I didn’t rail against the U.S. for being a violent nation that spends too much on military. Hell, I couldn’t even dredge up anger at President Reagan for cutting federal aid for mental health programs in the 80′s.

Then this morning, writing, the tears started. And the words “I am sorry” spilled out of my mouth.

I sobbed “I am sorry” again and again.

At first, I worried I might be a little unhinged but after the release of the tears, I got it: My own culpability had been a rock against the door of my heart.

I am sorry dear sweet beloved children and grieving parents and brave teachers. I am sorry I didn’t do more to create a safer world for you.

I am sorry I allowed cynicism, sloth and my tendency to talk big instead of take action keep me from marching, writing letters and giving money to change the gun story of this country. Stories can be changed. I am sorry I did not make the effort.

85 years ago, my father was 8 years old. He was playing Cowboys and Indians with his neighbor. He picked up his brother’s shotgun. My dad did not know the gun was loaded. I must have been about 16 when he told me he had killed his friend. I can still remember the blank sorrow on his face. I am sorry that in 85 years we have not made this kind of tragedy unthinkable. Instead, it has been writ so horribly and far too frequently across our nation.

I am sorry.

I do not write this from a misguided sense of guilt but from a heart that understands that those children are yours and mine – that all the people who die from gun violence everyday are us. I want us to take better care of ourselves – and unlike so many things – when it comes to gun violence, this is doable. This is not impossible – not at all. This is what I am most sorry about – that the story of our times has become a throw-up-our hands story. A story that there is nothing to be done, it’s too complicated, Congress is too divided, our country is too corrupt, money rules, blah blah blah.

I am sorry for ever buying that story. Hope is what I will take from this tragedy, strange at that might seem. Hope is what I will mine from all these needless deaths and from my father’s darkness. Hope to keep myself chugging forward, to keep remembering I can do better.

To change our thoughts, sure. To pray, yes. To meditate, please. And to take action – again and again and again – so everyone’s babies and teachers and fathers and teenagers have a better chance.

I am sorry.

  • written by Jennifer Louden

Affirmation Quick Searchaffirmation tags
♫Frampton I love enjoying this surrender. It is always beyond my wildest imagination of completion

It’s not that simple. What is the homocide rate in Mexico from gun violence? They have very strict gun control. It has to do with culture, not gun control. Here are some more “gun control” stats for you.

Ottoman, Turkey – 1915 to 1917 – between 1 and 1.5 million
Soviet Union – 1929 to 1945 – 20 Million
Nazi Germany – 1933 – 1945 – 20 Million
Nationalist China – 1927 – 1949 – 10 Million
Red China – 1949 – 1976 – 20 to 35 Million
Guatemala – 1960 – 1981 – 100,000 to 200,000
Uganda – 1971 – 1979 – 300,000
Cambodia – 1979 to 1979 – 2 Million
Rwanda – 1994 – 800,000

You are talking about numbers in the thousands. I am talking about numbers in the MILLIONS! It’s the difference between driving across town and driving to the moon.

I would like to see a per capita comparison of homicides for all countries regardless of the weapon involved. I’m also curious if Syria has gun control laws. Tyrants LOVE gun control laws. Gun control advocates are in good company if you consider folks like Stalin and Hitler good company.

And it just so happens that criminals don’t obey gun control laws. Gun control advocates would leave law-abiding citizens at the mercy of criminals and governments.

I wonder why Hitler took away the guns from the Jews? He didn’t take away the guns from the SS? He was just looking out for the people. Keeping them safe. I don’t want to live in a police state.

—————————————- * In 1976, the Washington, D.C. City Council passed a law generally prohibiting residents from possessing handguns and requiring that all firearms in private homes be (1) kept unloaded and (2) rendered temporally inoperable via disassembly or installation of a trigger lock. The law became operative on Sept. 24, 1976.33 [34]

* On June 26, 2008, the U.S. Supreme Court, in a 5-4 ruling, struck down this law as unconstitutional. During the years in which the D.C. handgun ban and trigger lock law was in effect, the Washington, D.C. murder rate averaged 73% higher than it was at the outset of the law, while the U.S. murder rate averaged 11% lower.

——————-
In 1920, Britain passed a law requiring civilians to obtain a certificate from their district police chief in order to purchase or possess any firearm except a shotgun. To obtain this certificate, the applicant had to pay a fee, and the chief of police had to be “satisfied” that the applicant had “good reason for requiring such a certificate” and did not pose a “danger to the public safety or to the peace.” The certificate had to specify the types and quantities of firearms and ammunition that the applicant could purchase and keep.38

  • In 1968, Britain made the 1920 law stricter by requiring civilians to obtain a certificate from their district police chief in order to purchase or possess a shotgun. This law also required that firearm certificates specify the identification numbers (“if known”) of all firearms and shotguns owned by the applicant.39
  • In 1997, Britain passed a law requiring civilians to surrender almost all privately owned handguns to the police. More than 162,000 handguns and 1.5 million pounds of ammunition were “compulsorily surrendered” by February 1998. Using “records of firearms held on firearms certificates,” police accounted for all but fewer than eight of all legally owned handguns in England, Scotland, and Wales.

† Homicide data is published according to the years in which the police initially reported the offenses as homicides, which are not always the same years in which the incidents took place.

‡ Large anomalies unrelated to guns:

2000: 58 Chinese people suffocated to death in a shipping container en route to the UK

2002: 172 homicides reported when Dr. Harold Shipman was exposed for killing his patients

2003: 20 cockle pickers drowned resulting in manslaughter charges

2005: 52 people were killed in the July 7th London subway/bus bombings

[41]

  • Not counting the above-listed anomalies, the homicide rate in England and Wales has averaged 52% higher since the outset of the 1968 gun control law and 15% higher since the outset of the 1997 handgun ban.42

——————————————-
In 1982, the city of Chicago instituted a ban on handguns. This ban barred civilians from possessing handguns except for those registered with the city government prior to enactment of the law. The law also specified that such handguns had to be re-registered every two years or owners would forfeit their right to possess them. In 1994, the law was amended to require annual re-registration.43 [44] [45]

  • In the wake of Chicago’s handgun ban, at least five suburbs surrounding Chicago instituted similar handgun bans. When the Supreme Court overturned the District of Columbia’s handgun ban in June 2008, at least four of these suburbs repealed their bans.46 [47] [48] [49] [50]
  • In June 2010, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled (5-4) that Chicago’s ban is unconstitutional.51

Since the outset of the Chicago handgun ban, the Chicago murder rate has averaged 17% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 25% lower.


Since the outset of the Chicago handgun ban, the percentage of Chicago murders committed with handguns has averaged about 40% higher than it was before the law took effect.55

  • In 2005, 96% of the firearm murder victims in Chicago were killed with handguns.

—————————
http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

Most governments state that no one has the right to carry a gun except those in government. In other words, they get to pick and choose has the guns. I don’t know how many times I have to point out acts of genocide before that sinks in. I DO have a right to carry a gun, why would you deny me that right. I don’t go around shooting people. Again, why shouldn’t I have the right to bear arms? Please answer that. A few years ago I, yes, I was one of two people targeted for robbery and murder. Luckily I was not robbed and murdered, but the business next to mine was. That man is dead. He was murdered. When the police caught the people who did it they told the police that they were planning to rob either me or that guy and by my good luck and his bad luck the man next door to me was murdered. The guys who killed that man weren’t interested in gun permits. Two shot to death at El Dorado barbershop
If there were no guns there would be no homicide by gun. It would be homocide by some other weapon. Maybe we should ban baseball bats too. And knives, and cars, and large, heavy pieces of wood, and pointy objects, and sharp objects, and pieces of pipe, and cars. Maybe we should just lock everyone up in padded cells and we can all be safe from life. Maybe we should hand the keys over to tyrants and criminals and just let them decide who lives and dies. Fear and slavery. It doesn’t appeal to me. Japan doesn’t have much death by gun. I wonder how the criminals kill people in Japan. The availability of guns does make it easier to kill someone with a gun. The gun doesn’t shoot itself though. It’s the culture. Poverty, ignorance, mental-illness, a society of entitlement and blame, jealousy, governments trying to silence people or control them or rob them, that is what kills people. The gun is NOT the cause. I’m sure if they just banned the machete in Africa all of the bloodshed there would just go away and they would all live in peace and harmony. Here’s an idea, let’s just disarm the government, let’s disarm the police. Governments kill way more people than individual criminals.

List of Massacres from Wiki
Many of these were before they even had guns.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

That is interesting data. Where did you get it? I have presented a lot more statistics to support my position than a single thirty year statistic. Please give more statistics to support your claim. If what you are saying is true, that gun control reduces homicide, please explain why it worked in this case and controverts the hundred plus years of data and numerous cases I put forward. I am still talking murder in the MILLIONS. I don’t think you could sell your position to the MILLIONS of people who have died at the hands of governments. Tell that to the Jews. Hell, Ghandi even disagrees with your position.

Australian Gun Control Stats according to SNOPES

Pretty shortly I’m going to present you with a LOT of VERY HARD, VERIFIABLE NUMBERS PUT INTO CONTEXT that absolutely prove that what I am saying is correct to any rational, honest person that looks sees it.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
— Gandalf, J.R.R. Tolkien
I’m Alright
Life Less Ordinary

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