jungs meaning

what did carl jung mean by;we should not pretend to understand the world only by intellect.the judgement of the intellect is only part of the truth.blessings mara.

In response to mara’s post:
I’m no expert…My first intro to Jung was in school…some time ago. I’m so glad you started another interesting thread for discussion. ...wonderful question with or without total-focus on Jung theories.

off the cuff…I would imagine Jung meant not to ‘simply’ discern by things at face value or the written words, & judgments of others…because experience is indeed more involved than surface.

Basics state:Jung personality theory encompassed 3 levels of the mind…conscious, repressed, and collective. Unconscious most powerful to him. He has some interesting work… about mans ancesterol past and consciousness.The self is always… attempting to achieve harmony and his work exemplifies this quest through some _interesting theories.

I’m gonna follow this thread with much enthusiasm. I have an audiobook by Jung called Memories, Dreams and Reflections, but I haven’t listened to it. Maybe this will spark me to dive in. I too think he may have been getting at the idea that the intellect simply can’t understand everything, it can’t even come close. Experience transcends the intellect. The idea of collective consciousness also fascinates me. Mara, thanks for this thread. You are a breath of fresh air! What say you, Selfcare?

thanks self care and smart routines.im very interested in jung.but i do get stuck sometimes, like his use of the word unindivduated.i think it might have something to do with being incomplete but im not sure.blessings mara.

Well, I’m over my head here. Don’t know enough to comment, but I hope you will continue to share what you are learning. I hope it’s not as hard to figure out at “Being and Nothingness”. I labored over 86 pages of that before I gave up!!!

In response to mara’s post:
Mara…please write out the context/sentences using individuation. I remember its usage…but need a prompt./I am not sure if you’d be interested …and/or if it would be helpful..but there is a great site called allpsych.com
. It shows a timeline of various theories. The link above is specifically Jung

I would also like to add your sincere desire to learn/study for yourself …is absolutely ….refreshing…only word that comes to mind…but fits well(:

You have triggered something in the learning-area for me.
I haven’t wanted to refresh my learning in this area because of the way psychology has gotten butchered in the world today. ...I will tell you this field of study more than interested me at 1x.

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hi selfcare.thanks for pointing me in the right direction.this is what i found.the goal of a person should be to become individuated.this means his goal is to become whole and complete.therefore unindividated would suggest that a person is not whole or complete from a psychological point of view.thanks self care i really appriciate your help.

Yes Mara..more whole…Here is another link…that appeared relevant for ground up

Individuation is a process of personality development first described by C. G. Jung. In his words, individuation is a “process by which a person becomes a psychological ‘in-dividual,’ that is, a separate, indivisible unity or whole.” (CW 9, I, 490) In so far as our individuality embraces our innermost, last, and incomparable uniqueness, [individuation] also implies becoming one’s own self. We could therefore translate individuation as ‘coming to selfhood’ or ‘self-realization.’ (CW 7, 266)

Individuation involves learning how to transform unconsciousness into consciousness in order that we may become whole.

through scientific understanding our world has become dehumanised.man feels himself isolated in the cosmos.he is no longer involved in nature and has lost his emotional participation in natural events which hitherto had a symbolic meaning for him.thunder is no longer the voice of god nor is lightening his avenging missile.no river contains a spirit’no tree makes a mans life.no snake is the embodiment of wisdom and no mountain still harbours a great demon.neither do things still speak to him nor can he speak to things.carl jung.

Your last post made me also think of the emasculation of men in the U.S. and perhaps other cultures. I think men in the U.S. in particular have lost much of what it is to be a male human. Not all men, of course, but I think we can see the effects of it in a broad sense. We have pc’d and attacked men for so long for being men that they no longer seem to know what it means. Also, the break down of the family unit has had a big impact, I believe, on our loosing of ‘selves’ – men and women. Historically most cultures have had rituals that conferred ‘manhood’ on a boy, and those rituals have been quite difficult, and although they may seem brutal and cruel, they serve a purpose – to earn respect among peers and to demonstrate not only to others, but to the adolescent himself that he is a powerful being and prevail in difficult situations. He is a helpless child no more. We simply don’t have that anymore, here, at least. Many of us are sold the idea that the government is going to take care of us. It’s an insidious lie, but it is fostered by many in this country and is epidemic in our educational system. We must not have unrest in the forest, so we keep all the trees equal with hatchet, axe and saw. Nice, helpless, compliant cogs for the machine.

i agree.i think many men do feel they have lost their role in society and are feeling under valued.political correctness has made manliness a dirty word.blessings mara.

about a third of my cases are suffering from no clinically definable neurosis.but from the senselessness and emptiness of their lives.this can be defined as the general neurosis of our times—carl jung.

everything that irritates us about others can lead to a better understanding of ourselfs.carl jung.

this is very true.what we are seeing in others is quite often what we see in ourselves.so what irritates us in other people could be what we dont like about ourselves.when we judge other people we are therfore judging ourselves.what we notice about other people can often teach us much about ourselves.

i agree.in a way other people can be like a mirrors reflection of ourselves this can help us learn more about us and how we might be kidding ourselves.blessings mara.

here’s my two cents…. I try to live every day based on the wisdom in my heart, not the knowledge in my head…. there is some work being done (wish I could remember names) which is trying to prove that the heart, our hearts, have the ability to be intelligent… now that is very oversimplified but for me has credence…. will try to get more info and post it if anyone is interested…. love and peace’ Kathy

the creation of something new is not accomplished by the intellect but by the play instinct acting from inner necessity.the creative mind plays with the objects it loves.carl jung.

jung on collective unconcious.so far as we can say anything about it at all.it appears to consist of mythological motifs or primordal images.for which reason the myths of all nations are its real exponents.in fact the whole of mythology could be taken as a sort of projective of the collective unconcious.we can therefore study the collective unconcious in two ways.either in mythology or in the analysis of the individual.

to know the human soul one has to hang up exact science and put away the scholars gown.say farewell to his study and wander with human heart through the world.through the horrors of prisons,madhouses and hospitals,through drab suburban pubs,in brothels and gambling dens.through the salons of elegant society,the stock exchanges,the socialist meetings,the churches,the revivals and ecstacies of the sects,to experience love,hate and passion in every form in one body.

I’m enjoying all the discussion going on in the forums. A thought occurred to me about the “mirror” thing. You know what I mean. I understand and agree with what the mirror is and how it applies to us, but I also think that sometimes we see things in other people that irritate us because they are just irritating. Okay, stupidity and cruelty irritate me, and what I’m seeing that is irritating me is sometimes just the stupidity and cruelty. Now what THAT is telling me about myself is quite clear – it’s that I hate stupidity and cruelty – it’s not necessarily telling me that I am cruel or stupid. Many times that mirror can show us things about ourselves that we want to be aware of – our own ‘weaknesses’, faults or even joys and good things – sometimes we are just recognizing reality – or, at least, our best perspective of reality. You know what I mean? If I see someone being cruel to someone, it doesn’t necessarily mean that I am cruel to people – just that I don’t like cruelty. We are capable of reason and making sense of the mirror and what we are seeing in it.

I don,t know much about jung,haven,t read any of his writings,except what mara posted.Many things can be said about his thoughts.What he,s basically saying (whatever decade he did most of his writings)is that humans are not acknowledging the spiritual part of the human condition.I think he would have been more at ease with life if he could have watched some episodes of seinfeld.I could maybe give a serious answer when I read something he,s wrote when I get a chance…For now as Fraser Crane might say“everybody wang jung tonight”

my take on his word unindividuated.Most individuals especially in jungs era were victims to the collective conscious at the time,lacking individuallity he labelled them unindividuated.Simalarly today or recently society has conscious people and unconscious people the unconscious are a result of the collective unconscious and the collective unconscious is continuously perpetuated by television.If you ever get the chance,rent the movie or find it online somehow (NETWORK)BRILLIANT ACTING ALL STAR CAST,Faye Duneaway, William Holden, Peter Finch, Robert Duvall. A classic made in 1976 Well ahead of it,s time,won 7or8 academy awards the brillance of each acter can,t be overstated,they all took home an oscar.

jung on astrology.
since you want to know my opinion on astrology.i can tell you i have been interested in this particular activity of the human mind since more than 30 years ago.as i am a pyschologist i am chiefly interested in the particular light the horoscope sheds on certain complications in the character.in cases of differcult psychological diagnosis i usually get a horoscope in order to have a further point of view from an entirely different angle.i must say that i very often found that the astrological data elucidated certain points which i otherwise would have been unable to understand.from such experiences i formed the opinion that astrology is of particular interest to the pyschologist.since it contains a sort of psychological experience we call projected.this means that we find pyscological facts as it were in the constellations.

more jung on astrology.
we are born at a given moment in a given place and like vintage years of wine we have the qualities of the year and of the season in which we are born.astrology does not lay claim to anything else.

the starry vault of heaven is in truth the open book of cosmic projection in which are reflected the mythologems.ie.the archetypes.in this vision astrology and alchemy the two classical functionaries of the psychology of the collective unconcious join hands.

Mara I didn’t notice this thread before but now I have to say it’s quite a coincidence because I have been reading quite a bit about Jung lately.

Right now I’m reading the writings of one of his disciples/successors, James Hillman.

I’m inspired by Jung’s Red Book , which is his secret book of drawings which was kept private and only published in 2009 after being locked up for half a century. No, I haven’t ssen it ($100 on Amazon) but I love the fact that he used those drawings to work through his own archetypal therapy. It inspired me to to do the same.

the red book does sound fascinating,i found this quote regarding it.
the central premise of the red book was that jung had become disillusioned with scientific rationlism-what he called the spirit of the times.and over the course of many quixotic encounters with his own soul and with other inner figures he comes to know and appreciate;the spirit of the depths;a field that makes room for magic,coincidence and the mythological metaphors delivered by dreams.

i think its time for me to start saving up the pennies.thanks accidental note.blessings mara

I thought about buying the Red Book, Mara. I actually can afford it, and might enjoy having it and loaning it to others.

I googled and found a few more pages and drawings from the book. Jung was a very capable artist and calligrapher. Beautiful pages.

But the more I read about it, the more I decided his book was a personal journal for him, not for me. I’m simply satisfied with the knowledge that he did it and it makes me more comfortable keeping my own books of drawings to work through my own internal dialog.

On the subject of Dr. James Hillman. I found this thought in one of his books last night. I’m slightly paraphrasing, but so what:

Words can be angels, carrying my soul to you and your soul to me.

So true.

jung on happiness.
jung believed there were five basic factors needed which would make for happiness in the human mind.these were.
1-good phsyical and mental health.
2-good personal and intimate relationships,such as marriage,family and friendship.
3-reasonable standards of living and satisfactory work.
4-the faculty for perceiving beauty in art and nature.
5-a philosophic or religious point of view capable of coping successfully with the vicissitudes of life.
jung also said that the more you deliberatly seek happiness the more sure you are not to find it.
i personally agree with the five factors but not jungs last point.i really believe that the more mindful i am about happiness the happier i become.i think if i actively pursue the five factors mentioned by jung in my own life then i will become happier.id like to hear what you guys think,do you agree with the five factors,and do you believe pursuing happiness will make you happier or less happy.blessings mara.

maybe when we make happiness the goal we are seeking. we create too hard a focus.being mindful of the various factors that contribute to happiness may provide a better object for us to keep in mind.happiness as a goal is possibly too open to failure,

See if this line from Walden stirs any similar thoughts.
“Why is it that a bucket of water soon becomes putrid, but frozen remains sweet forever? It is commonly said that this is the difference between the affections and the intellect.”
I was reminded of that while reading through this thread.

Just kind of off the cuff,the 5 factors jung spoke of seem like ingredients to a “happy and contented” existance.I would say that facter 5 is more vital than the other 4 or should be first on the list.On some days when life isn,t following my agenda,I need to consider a philosophical perspective.But if it,s up to me entirely I,ll have all 5 of the ingredients.

jungtalksaboutdeath

thewisdomofthedream

symbolismindreams

JUNGS RED BOOK.

jungsredbook discussed.